Interview with John Will By Michael Gent

1. John you have had a very interesting career in Martial Arts. What prompted you to start training and at what age?
It began for me with an interest in Amateur Olympic Freestyle wrestling at around fifteen years of age. I wrestled for about a year and a half until a broken leg (unrelated) put a hold on my training. When the leg was better I took up Goju Kai Karate under Tino Ceberano rather than go back to wrestling. A year or so later my interest shifted to Tae Kwon Do, which took me through to the end of my college years. During this time, my imagination had been fired by reading books and magazines on the various combative systems in other countries; so when school ended I obtained a passport and left for Asia.
As to what started my love affair with the martial arts … I would have to say that as a young teenager, I was looking for a way to empower myself and increase my level of self confidence.

2. What styles have you trained in and for how long?
I trained in various styles of Pentjak Silat throughout Indonesia between 1975 and 1982. During this time I also developed a close relationship with Richard Norton who introduced me to a more scientific and cutting edge approach to training. This led to me travelling to the USA during the mid to late 80's, where I was introduced to people like Benny Urquidez, Gene LeBell, Pete Cunningham and later on, the Brazilian fighters. Most of this eventuated due to the efforts of Richard, who has helped me more than he will ever admit to.
During the 80's, I also spent quite a lot of time travelling and training in India, Japan, Hong Kong and Thailand. But I have to say that the USA, was the place that opened my eyes the most. Until Brazil that is!

3. How does BJJ differ from other styles?
BJJ is different from other styles in that it is a methodology; that is, a system of fighting once the fight has gone to the clinch. It is so very much more than just a collection of locks, chokes and moves; it is a very refined and highly technical system. One of the reasons I was so attracted to it, was that even after only a little training, my level of effectiveness as a fighter increased by several orders of magnitude. It is a counter-intuitive art; which means that most peoples natural and instinctive responses will play right into the hands of a competent BJJ fighter. This makes it very easy to win; and win consistently. BJJ also enables the smaller and weaker person a means of controlling and ultimately 'finishing' a larger and stronger opponent. It is hard to achieve this with other styles.

4. BJJ - You are now one of Australia's' leading instructors - What were those first few years like training in BJJ?
The first few weeks especially, were very confronting for me. Being squashed, tied up in knots and tapped out by people lighter than myself was a humbling experience. And I have to admit that it was tough to go back in there again and again when the results always seemed to be the same. Then slowly, I learn't how very different groundwork is from the stand-up styles; and I began to adapt and let go of all the strength, speed and explosiveness that had previously underpinned most of my training. It wasn't long before a whole new world had opened up for me; and I was beginning to get my own share of victories on the mat. In the beginning though, learning BJJ is like learning a whole new language; at first it's strange but then you get a hold of some limited vocabulary and it puts you way in front of those who have no vocabularly. Slowly, over time, one learns to become fluent. So you can do as much or as little as you like; but be prepared, once you begin, it becomes very addictive! BJJ is like the language of leverage! Learn to speak it, and you will be amazed at the results!

5. What has BJJ done for you?
BJJ has done much for me as a martial artist and a fighter, but perhaps even more for me as a person. It gives you a real sense of confidence, because the results are real. When you wrestle, either you or your opponent taps out; the result is a real one. A first that is hard to deal with, at least it was in my case, but then you come to accept that losing is a very important part of learning and you make a shift in your thinking and start to get on with it. So people who are going through or have been through this kind of experience, know exactly where they stand in the bigger scheme of things; they don't tend to kid themselves too much and in my opinion, are a lot more relaxed with who they are and the world they live in.
In a physical sense, BJJ gives you a real edge! If the fight is no rules, it will more than not end up in a clinch, if not on the ground, and once there the BJJ fighter feels right at home. The ground environment is very comfortable and familiar to the BJJ fighter and everything becomes far more predictable and controllable. A nice feeling; in the chaos of a fight. I could not imagine training without that whole aspect. It would simply be too limited for me to maintain a serious level of interest. I am as keen and enthusiastic about my training now as I was twenty five years ago. More so!

6. Why do you prefer BJJ over other grappling styles out there and what is the major difference between BJJ and other grappling schools?
I love BJJ because it is a thinking mans art. It is based on superior strategy, technique and leverage. It is not a power game where the biggest and strongest wins. BJJ can be learned by anyone and taken to the level you are comfortable with. It offers an extremely high level of effectiveness for confrontation in the real world; it makes you supple, flexible and more healthy; above all, it engages your mind. It gets your mind moving at many different levels. It is a rich and captivating style. But hey .. I am somewhat biased.
As far as other grappling styles go; I think that many grappling styles have a lot to offer. For stand-up jacketed wrestling, you can't beat Judo; for takedowns and leg-shoots, Olympic Wrestling is the best; for bare topped, stand-up, upper body controls Greco Roman Wrestling has a lot to offer; but for groundwork; it's BJJ. All styles have something to offer and we must remain broad-minded enough and open enough to realize this; and even capitalize on it!

7.Stand up fighting has had to take a back seat since the grappling storm has peaked. What do you think will happen to stand up Martial Arts in the next 5 years?
Stand-up styles are important and are still a big part of the total fight picture; but I have to say, they are not the complete picture. At least half of the answer resides on the grappling side of the equation.
But then, I must say, that not all people are interested in the martial arts for the fighting aspect alone. There are many benefits to be gained from the martial arts other than fighting ability. Increased self confidence, better health, better co-ordination; there's also the socialization aspect; all of these things may be just as important if not more important than the fighting aspect. So I see no threat to the stand-up styles at all. The picture is just more complete now; there is a better balance in the martial arts community. I love and respect all kinds of martial artists; we are all trying to achieve our own personal goals; we are all moving forward through effort in and dedication to, that which we believe in.

8. What do you think will happen to ground fighting within the same time period (5 years)?
Within the next five years, I believe that many more martial arts instructors will have to offer their students some component of grappling. Especially if they are claiming to teach realistic self defence. The world now knows the importance of grappling skills; the cat is 'out of the bag'; to not have offer this in any serious self defence curriculum would be like trying to design a complete and wholesome diet that excluded carbohydrates. The hard core BJJ and grappling-based schools are not for everybody; because there is a fairly serious work-ethic involved. But all in all, I feel grappling will creep in more and more; particularly at the advanced level in most serious schools.

9. In my short time training in the grappling arts - I am amazed at the rapid growth of one's skill, is this due to the way you present BJJ or is it the many years of refining the style through fighting, having very little rules and guidelines?
As the old saying goes; 'in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king'. If you know even a little BJJ, then you can expect to handle the uninitiated fairly easily, once the fight has gone to ground. As I said, it is a methodology, a system, a complete strategy; not just a collection of moves. You must learn it the right way, and from someone who knows what they are doing. Learning the wrong thing at the wrong time can seriously impede your development. You can become a BJJ fighter fairly quickly; but a BJJ coach, that's another thing entirely.
BJJ is always developing; always evolving. If you create a good body of students, with a wide variety of talents and skills; then you have an environment where evolution and the creation of new technique can take place. BJJ has been this way since it's inception some eighty years ago. Always evolving, always something new!

10. BJJ has been proven in the ring and the street. Have you ever faced a dangerous situation, where you have had to use BJJ?
Yes, but not many times. Thousands of times on the mat but not in the street. My life is very different now than what it was like during my twenties. I am married and have a family; I don't spend time in the types of places where fights kick off!
A while ago, I witnessed a robbery in Melbourne where the bad guy knocked down several security guards before taking off down the street. This all happened in front of my car. And a female security guard who was the only one left standing, took off after the guy. He was a big guy, maybe six foot six and one hundred and twenty kilos; so I felt I should intervene. I drove off ahead of him, got out of my car and took him down as he ran toward me. I controlled him and put him to sleep just as the security guard arrived on the scene. I taped him up and when he woke, walked him back to the store where they took him into custody. The security people were still in shock; they are still probably trying to work out who I was. Fighting in the street is for losers; BJJ is not just about that; the real challenges are on the mat; day in and day out.

11. In your travels you have visited India - I know that yu had a chance meeting there with a Warrior of a unique time - Could you share that story?
I was in Delhi one time, doing some training with some Indian wrestlers. Also, I was doing some research in the state reference library there, on ancient Indian combative systems. I came across a book on Vajramushti, an old Indian method of wrestling in which the fighters wore knuckle dusters tied to their right hands. A sort of no-rules, 'vale-tudo' style of fighting but with brass knuckles. Pretty extreme!
Anyways, I obtained a copy of this book and decided to go to the state of Gujarat to track down any of the authors descendents. The authors were two brothers (the Jesthimullas) and had written the book more than fifty years ago. Without going into detail, I'll tell you that I through an extraordinary set of circumstances and an unlikely chain of events, I found one of these old guys. He took me into his house, was thrilled that I had an interest in this ancient art; and so took me to an old temple where he produced a large key and unlocked an old padlock that had had kept anyone from entering the Vajramushti training room for more than a two decades. His young nephews came a little later (both in their sixties) and I was treated to a display and a training session that still moves me when I think about it. It is a bitter-sweet memory, for they have no doubt passed on by now and all remnants of that amazing art are more than likely lost to the world. There you go; that's the short a tidy version of that story. A nice memory.

12. Do you think BJJ can be studied alongside another style?
BJJ can complement any style. For myself, I was predominantly a stand-up martial artist and decided not to shift over to teaching pure BJJ until I had obtained my black belt. But for many people, that are not so interested in as pure ground-oriented system, a little BJJ will only make them more complete as martial artists.

13. More and more Martial Artists are cross training within different schools, do you think it is possible to train both ways?
Well, if you mean can they do some BJJ as well as continue training in their particular style; I would have to answer, absolutely. I have many friends who are highly graded in other styles, but who train in BJJ on a regular basis to improve their overall abilities. These are all smart guys, who have at some point, come to the conclusion that they cannot afford to ignore this important half of the fight-equation. Some of these instructors are strict traditionalists, some are freestylists, others Kung Fu practitioners, some are kickboxers, some are Taekwondo and Hapkido instructors; they all have one trait in common though; they are wanting to expose themselves to all aspects of fighting and be able to offer their students, the complete picture.

14. What makes the Machado system so popular in Australia and America?
The Machado system of BJJ is geared toward the submission or the 'finish' of the fight. We enjoy the sporting aspect of BJJ, but are a little more interested in 'the finish' than are some other BJJ practitioners. Some BJJ coaches are more oriented toward the sporting aspect, in which points are awarded for position, if no finish should occur. These guys are good also though; good positional control is an absolute must if one wishes to master BJJ. Anyone who has a legitimate BJJ rank, is a knowledgable person. No BJJ coach that I have ever met, gives away the rank easily.
The other thing about the Machado's, is that they are a friendly and family-oriented people. We do not believe in 'challenging' other martial artists, or 'putting them down'; the Machado's have always respected all other martial artists and are well known for that respect throughout the USA. As a consequence, they have the support of hundreds of well known and respected martial artists throughout the world; and we are welcomed everywhere. That is how it should be. After all, this is what life should be like; about forming good and lasting friendships, about developing good character and the traits that go with it; things like loyalty, respect for other people, a strong work ethic, etc. These are all part and parcel of the Machado way. We are not into confrontation and challenges.

Thank you very much for a very eye opening and informative interview.

Cheers John, all the best to you and your family
Kind regards, Michael